Bro, we just want fucking healthcare like all the other countries. We're really just talking about capitalism with stronger social safety nets, unless tax loopholes for the wealthy.
Bro, government healthcare is a social democratic., not socialist program. Capitalist countries can have good healthcare, government ownership of the means of production is not a prerequisite.
That and some things should not be privatized, like prisons. It sets up incentives that are unethical as hell. And omg the idea the perhaps hospitals shouldn't be for rapacious levels of profit is about as controversial as the electrical grid answering to the Public Service Commission or water systems not being privatized. None of this is radical or communist or implies run of the mill Americans want a Soviet style planned economy. Regular people do not listen to a few unknown kooks on the fringe, none of which are running for office. They just don't like that 40% of the people on their state can't buy enough food because the rich must get richer.
I want to barf every time I see privileged people preaching for communism. Megan Romer is lying to herself and others that hardcore socialism is the answer to our ills.
Tai, the demands are realistic - don’t bite the dangling hook - 🪝 😱commie scare tactic - oh it’s a Marxist revolution !!!! Oh my God , the sky is falling !!
The fact that some grievances are very real doesn’t change the fact that people who promise simple sounding solutions actually plan to deliver on them. Literally every totalitarian regime, whether fascist or communist, started out with real grievances , legitimate or not, being subverted.
I promise to you that if people like Romer get their wish, free healthcare will be the last thing on your mind. It’s for a very good reason that every implementation of socialism requires machine gun towers for border control to keep happy proletariat in their paradise.
You have no way , at all , on Gods green earth , of predicting any of this . Period, full stop.🛑 what is real and true RIGHT now , is t bc at talk like this is being used to drive fear into the hearts of Americans. So - you need to stop this talk - it’s dangerous - esp now since there is already a totalitarian regime in power. Just like the trans scare, so goes the commie scare. Simmer down - the sky isn’t falling and it isn’t gonna fall because of one person like Romer. There is only 1 Cuba, only 1 N Korea, there are many (MANY) countries we could model ourselves after that are reasonable , successful - far more than there are failed Marxist models. There is no way I see US becoming a Cuba , the same way it’s having severe troubles manifesting a Nazi germany. Stop fear mongering . Let the electorate move to the Left , the world will not end.
WTF are you talking about , LITERALLY EVERY TIME this was tried it followed the same failed, oppressive , miserable scenario. There is no success story. And people who tried it before were infinitely more capable than the deranged malignant narcissist zoomers who made aggressive ignorance and performative self-debilitation into a full time career .
Including the socialist paradise in which I was born and lived almost half of my life.
And no, Denmark and Norway have absolutely nothing to do with socialism and are very vocal about it. In fact that talking turd Romer actually picked Cuba as a place for us to emulate.
How about this - everyone who actually wants to try this should be able to do so, on their own terms and to themselves. Buy a ticket to Pyongyang or something. The rest of our should fight this cancer with same commitment as any other totalitarian fascist takeover.
Thanks for sharing. Bates seems like a nightmare for anyone who is not buying into the ideology. I would want to say it is isolated, but a visit to my Alma mater a couple years ago would say it is not.
Why? Please expand your thinking since accusations without argument and evidence for a position are weak. I see only accusation and alarmist technique. I thought we as a people having been so abused by such strategy are at this time “allergic” to it.
I don't have it in front of me but I think Gary has documented some very worrisome prior statements by the DSA founders and top brass. Have a look back on his prior posts.
FWIW, I consider myself a Social Democrat with the emphasis on Democratic. The Scandinavian countries are my model. The Democratic Socialists, some fear, put the emphasis on Socialism and quietly forget about the Democracy part. I admit this may be an unfair characterisation but we need to hear more from the DSA on this question. JMTC...
it's impossible to wrestle with someone who doesn't have gloves -- mine are never "in front of me" but there is no reason at all with technology glued to our hands anything needed to substantiate comments is not accessible -- but the discussion is of interest to me, so I'll wait for you to return not just with what you "think" but what you can substantiate
The one indispensable and non-negotiable human liberty is self-determination. Neither Fascism nor Marxism will tolerate self-determination. Neither can allow individuals control of their own lives and survive. I will live free or die free, but my freedom will not be taken from me without a fight. Not by Marxists, not by Fascists, not by religious fanatics who would impose their metaphysical fantasies.
Its always the accumulation of power (be it ideological, political, religious, or MONETARY) that leads to a person being able to divest someone of liberty of self determination.
the point of government should be to make the rules that limit the runaway power....
so far it is relatively able to limit the personal power (someone cannot rob you simply for being stronger than you)
it was able to curb political power (one cannot be a monarch anymore)
it was able to curb religious power (in theory you cannot be burned as a witch by inquisition on religious grounds)
so now the focus is on limiting how far the accumulated money should be allowed to control lives of others (lobbying, buying elections, pursuing monopoly or rent seeking - like feudal inherited lords)... interesting times
Corporations are just the plutocrats that own them. The mythology that they are “public” because anyone can buy their stock serves the owners politically, but Amazon is Jeff Bezos, Paramount is Larry Ellison, you can go down the list, but more and more these corporations have one ultra capitalist that really calls the shots, controls the board, sets the objectives.
but how to add it to your last sentence "Not by Marxists, not by Fascists, not by religious fanatics who would impose their metaphysical fantasies." in a way that the common right wing reader could agree as well would be a worthwhile goal...
the right is known to be somewhat more authoritarian leaning (towards each of those ideologies tend towards as an extreme endpoint)
Ever read Chris Mooney’s “The Republican Brain?” It’s a really thorough examination of the psychology and sociology of people who feel comfort and safety from tribal membership and authoritarian structures.
I’ve found the most reliable way to diagnose what I call a “brain stem cognitive” is whether or not the individual has voluntarily spent their life within ten miles of their place of birth, or if they left it was only because they had no choice (no employment, military draft, business failure, marriage etc). It’s primarily a reflection of psychological insecurity that permeates their responses to cognitive dissonance, their hostility to education, fear of outsiders and difference, paranoia, conspiracy theories, etc..
I think a major miscalculation of classical liberalism has been assuming education can cure this affliction. My librarian mother as a young woman believed that. But after years seeing the same handful of people in the library she concluded that it wasn’t because the hateful authoritarians lacked educational opportunities, it was because they actively avoided them as they found learning anything that might challenge the beliefs their tribal membership conferred discomfiting. As for myself, I’ve pretty much concluded that brain stem cognitives are a waste of time and effort. You might neutralize them, but you can’t change their wiring.
its "just" 18 mins so doable (if a bit outdated being from 2008... i wonder if he changed his mind about being so mellow in presentation)
even though i understand why "brain stem cognitives" as you put it appear to be waste of time and effort... i hope they are not.. i hope that changing the world a bit by bit would allow even them to surpass the biological limits and benefit from exposure to other ideas (people, places...)... we should strive to make the world safe enough environment for them to explore without having the turtling reflex (ie like managing developing kids...difficult but ultimately worth it)
EDIT i also saw this guy run the fear angle in 2 mins... so i guess its all vaguely known for a while know... but there is no easy pill or solution
There's plenty of research on the amygdala dealing with people's political tendencies. And I would not criticize anyone on the right as if having a larger fear response than me being left-centerish is somehow a problem. Canaries in the coal mine are not a bad thing. It's when the fear is used to stoke hatred for the political gain, that's the problem.
Unfortunately the GOP will jump on articles like this to help their divide and conquer approach against the Democrats. McCarthyism all over again.
Are there still people left in the middle ground? It’s where most people should be but the modern digital world thrives on hate and divisiveness. It’s their business model.
Is it McCarthyism if I want the Democrats to seriously confront people who say they aren't in favor of the separation of powers? Am I helping Republicans when I say that people who support imperialist dictatorships like Russia or terrorists like Hamas should probably not be part of the tent? Am I a lunatic when I say that I actually like capitalism and we shouldn't abolish it?
Social Democracy: Accepts and works within a capitalist framework. It uses high taxes, strong labor laws, and large public welfare programs (like universal healthcare) to tame capitalism and reduce inequality.
Democratic Socialism: Shares many short-term policy goals with social democracy but keeps the long-term goal of over time dismantling the capitalist economic model entirely through democratic and electoral methods.
Many corporations in America are converting to shared ownership with employees. It is not a radical of "un-American" idea, and those corporations prosper while their employees enjoy a better standard of living. And they market themselves as such because consumers choose to purchase from them versus the competition.
Yes, it is not an overnight transition but over generations Democratic Socialism ultimately aims to abolish capitalism, seeking to replace private or corporate control of the economy with public, collective, or worker-led democratic ownership.
Democratic Socialists view capitalism as unequal and undemocratic, aiming to phase it out rather than just reform it.
Democratic socialists advocate for public or cooperative control over major economic sectors, industries, and resources.
In a Democratic Socialist economy, it is the workers and communities who make major financial and operational decisions instead of private owners or shareholders.
__________________________________________
How has capitalism worked for us to date? Would one not describe our experience with it as increasingly unequal and therefore undemocratic?
Small mom and pop shops are gobbled up. Large corporations such as Amazon dominate all markets. Oligarchs own our nation and have put in place a con man who is not leaving until there is nothing left to grift.
How is that working for everyone? Has this dominance by corporations in the name of capitalism not proven to be a major part of the suffering we have endured as Americans stemming from the unequal and undemocratic nature of capitalism?
Either you just copy-pasted something completely unresponsive or you wrote up something that is completely unresponsive. I raised specific issues, you respond with a general explanation that is meant to sanewash insane individuals.
I don't see evidence of insanity inside this discussion shared by many here. Just different views. I respect your view completely 100 percent. I'm not your enemy. Just a fellow American who stepped into an open discussion. There is no need to throw around accusations of insanity and what you refer to as sane washing amongst us. This is a safe space for collaboration and sharing views and information. I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intent. Have a great day!
This is true but with a catch. Originally, Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism were exactly the same thing: a plan to achieve a socialist economy using peaceful, democratic methods instead of a violent revolution. Over the last century, however, Social Democracy shifted from being a temporary, pragmatic compromise as you mention in your post on the way to socialism into a permanent arrangement that embraces a regulated capitalist system. This discussion is very widening, and I appreciate your adding another level as we adopt an understanding of the potential for Democratic Socialism that so scares everyone obviously. The best anecdote is to research, discuss and keep the dialogue flowing. Certainly, oligarch controlled and corporate owned America is not serving us at all. It is a crime unfolding in fact.
I agree with your thoughts about where America is right now (which is where the FOP always wants to push it). Social democracy is a regulated capitalist system that seems to work very well in many countries. I’m not sure there has ever been a true socialist system anywhere that actually works to benefit the people - human nature always intervenes to distort it.
Exactly. It is an "alarmist" click grabbing title and an insult to the intelligence of Americans. We did not get this far without some intelligence but are categorized as brutes. This article is one that will never be remembered and does nothing for our cause. Thanks anyway but I question the motive of the author. We need to be less naive and trusting if anything as Americans. But we are intelligent, hard-working and will figure this out on our own. We have grown up and united are indominable. Democratic Socialism is not Marxism. https://polsci.institute/political-theory/critiques-of-marxism-democratic-socialism/
You have to vaguely understand the position of Garry Kasparov... he fled authoritarianism ...so he is justly oversensitive to any semblance of "far left communism" ... while consciously or subconsciously failing to understand he fears the authoritarianism aspect (that can be found on both ends of the economic spectrum) not the economic aspect and current political debate is about the economic aspect... since its difficult to get even more authoritarian from where you are now...
his motive is not to flee one and end up in the same problem ... (the fear of any refugee) but i feel that fear is misplaced...
The ghost of Russia is centuries of two tier societies with a shitty ruling class. The ghost of the USA is and always has been white male supremacy. Garry Kasparov has his fears, and I understand that well enough (I have friends who fled the Soviet Union in the 50s, after all), but I don't see what it has to do with the US, when the problem we face is decidedly on the far right and has big fat white male supremacist stamp staring everyone in the face.
I assume Garry receives support from a professional for his trauma versus what I see in this article which most certainly is a blatant "move" to influence and attract a following. I have no objection to it, but I cannot help seeing what I see.
Furthermore, it may not be immediately saturated into the conscience of those who step into the fray that Americans are no longer naive and even prior to our crisis we certainly do not turn to "influencers" as a credible source as we decide the future of our children.
We together with Garry are magnificent in our diversity and the day in day out contribution each of us makes to society. But anyone who comes to us in service to their own personal goals at our expense is not going to find a wide audience. That is not unkind it is a matter of survival in these times.
Trillions have been invested to divide us. Never again! And, in fact the investment reveals both the flank and fear of our common "enemy". There is fear running through the ranks of our enemy. Fear of a united American people. WWW.INDIVISIBLE.ORG
Not only will Republicans jump or more precisely the "machine" that supports them -- most of what we will see has been planted to divide us. Never again! We have grown up which "the enemy" did not factor into their plans for us.
We have met each other on the street and platforms such as this one and can see we are magnificent in our diversity and work ethic and freedom is in our DNA. Unlike many "free" nations before us that caved to fascism such as Russia and Germany, we will not roll over and turn a blind eye. As I say -- it's in our DNA don't you feel it in your bones?
It is undeniable and multiplies into a formidable power when we get out and stand shoulder to shoulder. We were born into these times and must respond in kind to the times we have been born into not so much for us but for our children.
Find something to do. I'm 75 and protest, write post cards, donate to campaigns across the country standing up to MAGA and will be volunteering at the polls. No one is coming to save us. We are the "one" we have been waiting for, and time is of the essence.
No one can sit on the sidelines. There is work to be done. Fill your calendars. Show up for our children. Many have come before us and did the same. It is our turn and I am glad to be alive today and do what I can for our children. www.indivisible.org
"Democratic socialism isn’t booming across the country because of a fundamental shift in American priorities. Quite the opposite.
It’s booming because, despite the political smear campaigns, when people hear that these candidates really just care about core domestic issues like the cost of living, protecting the environment, and taking care of families, they’re forced to ask one inevitable question:
how does this compare to Republican priorities of hiding the Epstein files, forever war in Iran, and billionaires forcing data centers down our throats?"
A congenital defect of communism’s emigres is a paranoid and misplaced association of Western social democrats with the communist shibboleth. In this sadly they shill for fascist oligarch neoreactionaries, not democracy.
I couldn’t be more repulsed by this display of DSA delusion. The sheer lackadaisical attitude toward revolutionary socialism and an eventual communist objective—ideologies with an appalling historical record—is staggering, especially coming from the co-chair of a political organization.
A movement that talks seriously about abolishing prisons, borders, the presidency, the Senate, and ultimately capitalism itself should not be treated as some harmless progressive tendency. These are radical political objectives, and Americans should understand exactly what is being advocated.
I oppose this kind of far-left extremism for the same fundamental reason I oppose Trumpian MAGA extremism: both represent dangerous departures from liberal democracy and the institutions, pluralism, and political restraints necessary to preserve a free society.
These movements need to be openly challenged, denounced, and politically defeated—not normalized or allowed to masquerade as ordinary democratic politics.
NO DSA. NO MAGA. Period.
Democrats, wake up and kick these ideological extremists to the curb before they do even more damage to the credibility of the democratic left and hand the far right exactly the ammunition it wants.
The biggest problem today is that we have no way of knowing where money is coming from to support many of our candidates. Most Americans don’t care about names of parties or even their platforms….no one reads them and often they don’t reflect the politicians that get elected. We want decent opportunities to hold a job that contributes and the ability to remain healthy.
Marxism claims to be international 'socialism" (though there were Russian nationalist/colonialist aspects to the Soviet Union). Nazism claims to be national "socialism" (though historically, the Axis powers formed an international alliance). Fascism is a cousin to Nazism, though de-emphasizes racism in favor of alliance between big government and large corporations.
While Trump is not ideologically pure (like every other elected politician), he is not a fascist and leans libertarian. Sometimes force must be organized in defense of natural justice against those who organize force in violation of natural justice. The two should not be conflated.
Foreign aid amounts to using tax dollars or government-backed debt to subsidize the defense or welfare of other governments. Opposing US foreign aid to Ukraine doesn't amount to opposition to Ukraine. The 2014 revolution gave Ukraine a chance to reform its corruption, economy, and to prepare for war. The pre-2022 leadership of Ukraine failed in all three areas. Zelensky is surrounded by thieves, which is why he defended Syrski and fired Fedorov.
At this point, Ukraine is the lesser evil, but the US is bankrupt and cannot afford the absurd generosity we displayed after WW2 and in bailing out Europe in two world wars. The US can no longer afford to protect the world, but must focus on American interests first. Let Europe pay for the defense of Europe, and reshore manufacturing to the US and away from mainland China.
I think what’s going on right now in our country is a generational shift in what are the most important problems we face, challenges to our “traditional” hierarchical structures, and what can be done to address problems and reorder things to be more the way we would like them to be. It’s an uncomfortable, chaotic time. Change is scary, especially if you don’t know what’s coming next.
The right’s part in this discussion has mostly been to double down on its authoritarian tendencies, pushing failed, rigid ideologies and fear. The center and left have been having mostly non-ideological and painfully slow discussion and experimenting a little.
Fear-mongering about a group of wacky ideologues, who aren’t even homogeneously wacky, which numbers 129k (AFTER a big bump in membership due to Mamdani) runs the risk of stifling the non-ideological discussion sane Americans (minus, obviously, MAGA and the DSA ideologues) are having about our future. Medicare for all isn’t socialist. Wanting to break up big corporations isn’t socialist. Advocating improving our disaster of an education “system” isn’t socialist. Wanting to address obscene wealth inequality isn’t socialist.
So, Garry, keep that in mind as you try to scare up as much outrage as you can about the pathetic DSA, even if they are having a bit of a moment right now.
Thank you for writing this, I think you make some good points. However, I think there is some nuance being glossed over here.
1) Candidates aren't always as extreme as their most vocal supporters. Mamdani in particular has been in many respects a centrist mayor (something that he gets bashed for in certain circles). And while I agree with you that platforming Piker was a mistake, I suspect Al-Sayed will turn out to be in the same mold.
2) I disagree with you that the establishment Democrats are being feckless. The party is spending real capital -both financial and political - preventing the most extreme candidates from winning primaries. And it's not always unsuccessful; for every Al-Sayed who squeaks through, there's a Francis Hong who doesn't.
3) I feel like Platner is a different kettle of fish. As far as I know, his flaws had little to do with extreme political positions and more to do with abhorrent personal behavior: more like Swalwell than Hong.
Rallying around the primary candidate after the voters have spoken seems to me to be a realistic, even centrist approach, because the alternative at that point is ceding ground to people who let ICE murder people with impunity. For all people like Romer spout nonsense, at least we are not yet at the point where they are enabling that level of tangible harm. There is some hope that, like AOC and Mamdani, once people assume positions of authority they will realize they need to modulate their approach; with the GOP on the other hand, we are seeing the opposite.
Anyway, again I really appreciate you speaking up about these issues, even if we don't agree on everything.
Bro, we just want fucking healthcare like all the other countries. We're really just talking about capitalism with stronger social safety nets, unless tax loopholes for the wealthy.
That's social democracy.
Democratic socialism is socialism and requires a revolution, albeit democratic - not the Marxist Leninist kind.
Social democracy doesn't imply a "revolution" on the short term. Historically that's only a pragmatic compromise. On theory they're the same thing
Bro, government healthcare is a social democratic., not socialist program. Capitalist countries can have good healthcare, government ownership of the means of production is not a prerequisite.
That and some things should not be privatized, like prisons. It sets up incentives that are unethical as hell. And omg the idea the perhaps hospitals shouldn't be for rapacious levels of profit is about as controversial as the electrical grid answering to the Public Service Commission or water systems not being privatized. None of this is radical or communist or implies run of the mill Americans want a Soviet style planned economy. Regular people do not listen to a few unknown kooks on the fringe, none of which are running for office. They just don't like that 40% of the people on their state can't buy enough food because the rich must get richer.
I think that's just called "authoritarianism."
I want to barf every time I see privileged people preaching for communism. Megan Romer is lying to herself and others that hardcore socialism is the answer to our ills.
the anecdote to barfing is to educate yourself -- and you show no evidence of it -- regrettably
Tai, the demands are realistic - don’t bite the dangling hook - 🪝 😱commie scare tactic - oh it’s a Marxist revolution !!!! Oh my God , the sky is falling !!
The fact that some grievances are very real doesn’t change the fact that people who promise simple sounding solutions actually plan to deliver on them. Literally every totalitarian regime, whether fascist or communist, started out with real grievances , legitimate or not, being subverted.
I promise to you that if people like Romer get their wish, free healthcare will be the last thing on your mind. It’s for a very good reason that every implementation of socialism requires machine gun towers for border control to keep happy proletariat in their paradise.
You have no way , at all , on Gods green earth , of predicting any of this . Period, full stop.🛑 what is real and true RIGHT now , is t bc at talk like this is being used to drive fear into the hearts of Americans. So - you need to stop this talk - it’s dangerous - esp now since there is already a totalitarian regime in power. Just like the trans scare, so goes the commie scare. Simmer down - the sky isn’t falling and it isn’t gonna fall because of one person like Romer. There is only 1 Cuba, only 1 N Korea, there are many (MANY) countries we could model ourselves after that are reasonable , successful - far more than there are failed Marxist models. There is no way I see US becoming a Cuba , the same way it’s having severe troubles manifesting a Nazi germany. Stop fear mongering . Let the electorate move to the Left , the world will not end.
WTF are you talking about , LITERALLY EVERY TIME this was tried it followed the same failed, oppressive , miserable scenario. There is no success story. And people who tried it before were infinitely more capable than the deranged malignant narcissist zoomers who made aggressive ignorance and performative self-debilitation into a full time career .
Including the socialist paradise in which I was born and lived almost half of my life.
And no, Denmark and Norway have absolutely nothing to do with socialism and are very vocal about it. In fact that talking turd Romer actually picked Cuba as a place for us to emulate.
How about this - everyone who actually wants to try this should be able to do so, on their own terms and to themselves. Buy a ticket to Pyongyang or something. The rest of our should fight this cancer with same commitment as any other totalitarian fascist takeover.
If you really want to see bizarre lefty echo-chamber dynamics, this recent article in the Atlantic had me gripped: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/2026/09/elite-academia-leadership-hypocrisy/687969/
I'm not sure I agree with the sweeping generalization to all of academia, but as a personal narrative, it's hard to dispute the cringe.
Thanks for sharing. Bates seems like a nightmare for anyone who is not buying into the ideology. I would want to say it is isolated, but a visit to my Alma mater a couple years ago would say it is not.
what is hardcore socialism?
I was here before the comments turned into a warzone.
Very good points, Gary. Thanks.
I counter that "move." Democratic Socialism is not Marxism so the premise to the article is flawed from the start. https://polsci.institute/political-theory/critiques-of-marxism-democratic-socialism/
I think Gary remains suspicious of the motives of the people heading the DSA movement. I think his suspicion may well be warranted. JMTC…
Why? Please expand your thinking since accusations without argument and evidence for a position are weak. I see only accusation and alarmist technique. I thought we as a people having been so abused by such strategy are at this time “allergic” to it.
I don't have it in front of me but I think Gary has documented some very worrisome prior statements by the DSA founders and top brass. Have a look back on his prior posts.
FWIW, I consider myself a Social Democrat with the emphasis on Democratic. The Scandinavian countries are my model. The Democratic Socialists, some fear, put the emphasis on Socialism and quietly forget about the Democracy part. I admit this may be an unfair characterisation but we need to hear more from the DSA on this question. JMTC...
it's impossible to wrestle with someone who doesn't have gloves -- mine are never "in front of me" but there is no reason at all with technology glued to our hands anything needed to substantiate comments is not accessible -- but the discussion is of interest to me, so I'll wait for you to return not just with what you "think" but what you can substantiate
Sorry but I just don’t have the time right now.
The one indispensable and non-negotiable human liberty is self-determination. Neither Fascism nor Marxism will tolerate self-determination. Neither can allow individuals control of their own lives and survive. I will live free or die free, but my freedom will not be taken from me without a fight. Not by Marxists, not by Fascists, not by religious fanatics who would impose their metaphysical fantasies.
you forgot the corporations as well.
Its always the accumulation of power (be it ideological, political, religious, or MONETARY) that leads to a person being able to divest someone of liberty of self determination.
the point of government should be to make the rules that limit the runaway power....
so far it is relatively able to limit the personal power (someone cannot rob you simply for being stronger than you)
it was able to curb political power (one cannot be a monarch anymore)
it was able to curb religious power (in theory you cannot be burned as a witch by inquisition on religious grounds)
so now the focus is on limiting how far the accumulated money should be allowed to control lives of others (lobbying, buying elections, pursuing monopoly or rent seeking - like feudal inherited lords)... interesting times
Corporations are just the plutocrats that own them. The mythology that they are “public” because anyone can buy their stock serves the owners politically, but Amazon is Jeff Bezos, Paramount is Larry Ellison, you can go down the list, but more and more these corporations have one ultra capitalist that really calls the shots, controls the board, sets the objectives.
agree there 100%!
but how to add it to your last sentence "Not by Marxists, not by Fascists, not by religious fanatics who would impose their metaphysical fantasies." in a way that the common right wing reader could agree as well would be a worthwhile goal...
the right is known to be somewhat more authoritarian leaning (towards each of those ideologies tend towards as an extreme endpoint)
Ever read Chris Mooney’s “The Republican Brain?” It’s a really thorough examination of the psychology and sociology of people who feel comfort and safety from tribal membership and authoritarian structures.
I’ve found the most reliable way to diagnose what I call a “brain stem cognitive” is whether or not the individual has voluntarily spent their life within ten miles of their place of birth, or if they left it was only because they had no choice (no employment, military draft, business failure, marriage etc). It’s primarily a reflection of psychological insecurity that permeates their responses to cognitive dissonance, their hostility to education, fear of outsiders and difference, paranoia, conspiracy theories, etc..
I think a major miscalculation of classical liberalism has been assuming education can cure this affliction. My librarian mother as a young woman believed that. But after years seeing the same handful of people in the library she concluded that it wasn’t because the hateful authoritarians lacked educational opportunities, it was because they actively avoided them as they found learning anything that might challenge the beliefs their tribal membership conferred discomfiting. As for myself, I’ve pretty much concluded that brain stem cognitives are a waste of time and effort. You might neutralize them, but you can’t change their wiring.
sorry didnt read that one.. i mostly use the reading time for fiction since real world is grim enough so i need some escapes to fantasy distopias
however i was looking at a similar TED talk ages ago that phrases it a bit more politically correctly
https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_the_moral_roots_of_liberals_and_conservatives
its "just" 18 mins so doable (if a bit outdated being from 2008... i wonder if he changed his mind about being so mellow in presentation)
even though i understand why "brain stem cognitives" as you put it appear to be waste of time and effort... i hope they are not.. i hope that changing the world a bit by bit would allow even them to surpass the biological limits and benefit from exposure to other ideas (people, places...)... we should strive to make the world safe enough environment for them to explore without having the turtling reflex (ie like managing developing kids...difficult but ultimately worth it)
EDIT i also saw this guy run the fear angle in 2 mins... so i guess its all vaguely known for a while know... but there is no easy pill or solution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsXBxYwvNmU
There's plenty of research on the amygdala dealing with people's political tendencies. And I would not criticize anyone on the right as if having a larger fear response than me being left-centerish is somehow a problem. Canaries in the coal mine are not a bad thing. It's when the fear is used to stoke hatred for the political gain, that's the problem.
Unfortunately the GOP will jump on articles like this to help their divide and conquer approach against the Democrats. McCarthyism all over again.
Are there still people left in the middle ground? It’s where most people should be but the modern digital world thrives on hate and divisiveness. It’s their business model.
Is it McCarthyism if I want the Democrats to seriously confront people who say they aren't in favor of the separation of powers? Am I helping Republicans when I say that people who support imperialist dictatorships like Russia or terrorists like Hamas should probably not be part of the tent? Am I a lunatic when I say that I actually like capitalism and we shouldn't abolish it?
Democratic Socialism vs. Social Democracy:
Social Democracy: Accepts and works within a capitalist framework. It uses high taxes, strong labor laws, and large public welfare programs (like universal healthcare) to tame capitalism and reduce inequality.
Democratic Socialism: Shares many short-term policy goals with social democracy but keeps the long-term goal of over time dismantling the capitalist economic model entirely through democratic and electoral methods.
Many corporations in America are converting to shared ownership with employees. It is not a radical of "un-American" idea, and those corporations prosper while their employees enjoy a better standard of living. And they market themselves as such because consumers choose to purchase from them versus the competition.
Yes, it is not an overnight transition but over generations Democratic Socialism ultimately aims to abolish capitalism, seeking to replace private or corporate control of the economy with public, collective, or worker-led democratic ownership.
Democratic Socialists view capitalism as unequal and undemocratic, aiming to phase it out rather than just reform it.
Democratic socialists advocate for public or cooperative control over major economic sectors, industries, and resources.
In a Democratic Socialist economy, it is the workers and communities who make major financial and operational decisions instead of private owners or shareholders.
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How has capitalism worked for us to date? Would one not describe our experience with it as increasingly unequal and therefore undemocratic?
Small mom and pop shops are gobbled up. Large corporations such as Amazon dominate all markets. Oligarchs own our nation and have put in place a con man who is not leaving until there is nothing left to grift.
How is that working for everyone? Has this dominance by corporations in the name of capitalism not proven to be a major part of the suffering we have endured as Americans stemming from the unequal and undemocratic nature of capitalism?
Either you just copy-pasted something completely unresponsive or you wrote up something that is completely unresponsive. I raised specific issues, you respond with a general explanation that is meant to sanewash insane individuals.
I don't see evidence of insanity inside this discussion shared by many here. Just different views. I respect your view completely 100 percent. I'm not your enemy. Just a fellow American who stepped into an open discussion. There is no need to throw around accusations of insanity and what you refer to as sane washing amongst us. This is a safe space for collaboration and sharing views and information. I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intent. Have a great day!
Do you think the specific points I raised are problematic at all?
Historically Social Democracy have been a pragmatic compromise on socialism. The long term goal in theory is the same
This is true but with a catch. Originally, Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism were exactly the same thing: a plan to achieve a socialist economy using peaceful, democratic methods instead of a violent revolution. Over the last century, however, Social Democracy shifted from being a temporary, pragmatic compromise as you mention in your post on the way to socialism into a permanent arrangement that embraces a regulated capitalist system. This discussion is very widening, and I appreciate your adding another level as we adopt an understanding of the potential for Democratic Socialism that so scares everyone obviously. The best anecdote is to research, discuss and keep the dialogue flowing. Certainly, oligarch controlled and corporate owned America is not serving us at all. It is a crime unfolding in fact.
I agree with your thoughts about where America is right now (which is where the FOP always wants to push it). Social democracy is a regulated capitalist system that seems to work very well in many countries. I’m not sure there has ever been a true socialist system anywhere that actually works to benefit the people - human nature always intervenes to distort it.
Exactly. It is an "alarmist" click grabbing title and an insult to the intelligence of Americans. We did not get this far without some intelligence but are categorized as brutes. This article is one that will never be remembered and does nothing for our cause. Thanks anyway but I question the motive of the author. We need to be less naive and trusting if anything as Americans. But we are intelligent, hard-working and will figure this out on our own. We have grown up and united are indominable. Democratic Socialism is not Marxism. https://polsci.institute/political-theory/critiques-of-marxism-democratic-socialism/
You have to vaguely understand the position of Garry Kasparov... he fled authoritarianism ...so he is justly oversensitive to any semblance of "far left communism" ... while consciously or subconsciously failing to understand he fears the authoritarianism aspect (that can be found on both ends of the economic spectrum) not the economic aspect and current political debate is about the economic aspect... since its difficult to get even more authoritarian from where you are now...
his motive is not to flee one and end up in the same problem ... (the fear of any refugee) but i feel that fear is misplaced...
The ghost of Russia is centuries of two tier societies with a shitty ruling class. The ghost of the USA is and always has been white male supremacy. Garry Kasparov has his fears, and I understand that well enough (I have friends who fled the Soviet Union in the 50s, after all), but I don't see what it has to do with the US, when the problem we face is decidedly on the far right and has big fat white male supremacist stamp staring everyone in the face.
I assume Garry receives support from a professional for his trauma versus what I see in this article which most certainly is a blatant "move" to influence and attract a following. I have no objection to it, but I cannot help seeing what I see.
Furthermore, it may not be immediately saturated into the conscience of those who step into the fray that Americans are no longer naive and even prior to our crisis we certainly do not turn to "influencers" as a credible source as we decide the future of our children.
We together with Garry are magnificent in our diversity and the day in day out contribution each of us makes to society. But anyone who comes to us in service to their own personal goals at our expense is not going to find a wide audience. That is not unkind it is a matter of survival in these times.
Trillions have been invested to divide us. Never again! And, in fact the investment reveals both the flank and fear of our common "enemy". There is fear running through the ranks of our enemy. Fear of a united American people. WWW.INDIVISIBLE.ORG
Not only will Republicans jump or more precisely the "machine" that supports them -- most of what we will see has been planted to divide us. Never again! We have grown up which "the enemy" did not factor into their plans for us.
We have met each other on the street and platforms such as this one and can see we are magnificent in our diversity and work ethic and freedom is in our DNA. Unlike many "free" nations before us that caved to fascism such as Russia and Germany, we will not roll over and turn a blind eye. As I say -- it's in our DNA don't you feel it in your bones?
It is undeniable and multiplies into a formidable power when we get out and stand shoulder to shoulder. We were born into these times and must respond in kind to the times we have been born into not so much for us but for our children.
Find something to do. I'm 75 and protest, write post cards, donate to campaigns across the country standing up to MAGA and will be volunteering at the polls. No one is coming to save us. We are the "one" we have been waiting for, and time is of the essence.
No one can sit on the sidelines. There is work to be done. Fill your calendars. Show up for our children. Many have come before us and did the same. It is our turn and I am glad to be alive today and do what I can for our children. www.indivisible.org
the overton window went too far right
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2024
https://substack.com/home/post/p-210935967
"Democratic socialism isn’t booming across the country because of a fundamental shift in American priorities. Quite the opposite.
It’s booming because, despite the political smear campaigns, when people hear that these candidates really just care about core domestic issues like the cost of living, protecting the environment, and taking care of families, they’re forced to ask one inevitable question:
how does this compare to Republican priorities of hiding the Epstein files, forever war in Iran, and billionaires forcing data centers down our throats?"
A congenital defect of communism’s emigres is a paranoid and misplaced association of Western social democrats with the communist shibboleth. In this sadly they shill for fascist oligarch neoreactionaries, not democracy.
I couldn’t be more repulsed by this display of DSA delusion. The sheer lackadaisical attitude toward revolutionary socialism and an eventual communist objective—ideologies with an appalling historical record—is staggering, especially coming from the co-chair of a political organization.
A movement that talks seriously about abolishing prisons, borders, the presidency, the Senate, and ultimately capitalism itself should not be treated as some harmless progressive tendency. These are radical political objectives, and Americans should understand exactly what is being advocated.
I oppose this kind of far-left extremism for the same fundamental reason I oppose Trumpian MAGA extremism: both represent dangerous departures from liberal democracy and the institutions, pluralism, and political restraints necessary to preserve a free society.
These movements need to be openly challenged, denounced, and politically defeated—not normalized or allowed to masquerade as ordinary democratic politics.
NO DSA. NO MAGA. Period.
Democrats, wake up and kick these ideological extremists to the curb before they do even more damage to the credibility of the democratic left and hand the far right exactly the ammunition it wants.
The biggest problem today is that we have no way of knowing where money is coming from to support many of our candidates. Most Americans don’t care about names of parties or even their platforms….no one reads them and often they don’t reflect the politicians that get elected. We want decent opportunities to hold a job that contributes and the ability to remain healthy.
I care. I read. I'm American.
🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Marxism claims to be international 'socialism" (though there were Russian nationalist/colonialist aspects to the Soviet Union). Nazism claims to be national "socialism" (though historically, the Axis powers formed an international alliance). Fascism is a cousin to Nazism, though de-emphasizes racism in favor of alliance between big government and large corporations.
While Trump is not ideologically pure (like every other elected politician), he is not a fascist and leans libertarian. Sometimes force must be organized in defense of natural justice against those who organize force in violation of natural justice. The two should not be conflated.
Foreign aid amounts to using tax dollars or government-backed debt to subsidize the defense or welfare of other governments. Opposing US foreign aid to Ukraine doesn't amount to opposition to Ukraine. The 2014 revolution gave Ukraine a chance to reform its corruption, economy, and to prepare for war. The pre-2022 leadership of Ukraine failed in all three areas. Zelensky is surrounded by thieves, which is why he defended Syrski and fired Fedorov.
At this point, Ukraine is the lesser evil, but the US is bankrupt and cannot afford the absurd generosity we displayed after WW2 and in bailing out Europe in two world wars. The US can no longer afford to protect the world, but must focus on American interests first. Let Europe pay for the defense of Europe, and reshore manufacturing to the US and away from mainland China.
Universal healthcare is not Marxism. That’s all that people want.
I think what’s going on right now in our country is a generational shift in what are the most important problems we face, challenges to our “traditional” hierarchical structures, and what can be done to address problems and reorder things to be more the way we would like them to be. It’s an uncomfortable, chaotic time. Change is scary, especially if you don’t know what’s coming next.
The right’s part in this discussion has mostly been to double down on its authoritarian tendencies, pushing failed, rigid ideologies and fear. The center and left have been having mostly non-ideological and painfully slow discussion and experimenting a little.
Fear-mongering about a group of wacky ideologues, who aren’t even homogeneously wacky, which numbers 129k (AFTER a big bump in membership due to Mamdani) runs the risk of stifling the non-ideological discussion sane Americans (minus, obviously, MAGA and the DSA ideologues) are having about our future. Medicare for all isn’t socialist. Wanting to break up big corporations isn’t socialist. Advocating improving our disaster of an education “system” isn’t socialist. Wanting to address obscene wealth inequality isn’t socialist.
So, Garry, keep that in mind as you try to scare up as much outrage as you can about the pathetic DSA, even if they are having a bit of a moment right now.
Thank you for writing this, I think you make some good points. However, I think there is some nuance being glossed over here.
1) Candidates aren't always as extreme as their most vocal supporters. Mamdani in particular has been in many respects a centrist mayor (something that he gets bashed for in certain circles). And while I agree with you that platforming Piker was a mistake, I suspect Al-Sayed will turn out to be in the same mold.
2) I disagree with you that the establishment Democrats are being feckless. The party is spending real capital -both financial and political - preventing the most extreme candidates from winning primaries. And it's not always unsuccessful; for every Al-Sayed who squeaks through, there's a Francis Hong who doesn't.
3) I feel like Platner is a different kettle of fish. As far as I know, his flaws had little to do with extreme political positions and more to do with abhorrent personal behavior: more like Swalwell than Hong.
Rallying around the primary candidate after the voters have spoken seems to me to be a realistic, even centrist approach, because the alternative at that point is ceding ground to people who let ICE murder people with impunity. For all people like Romer spout nonsense, at least we are not yet at the point where they are enabling that level of tangible harm. There is some hope that, like AOC and Mamdani, once people assume positions of authority they will realize they need to modulate their approach; with the GOP on the other hand, we are seeing the opposite.
Anyway, again I really appreciate you speaking up about these issues, even if we don't agree on everything.
Well said Gary. Subscribed and looking forward to pushing these extremes back underground where they belong.