I am old enough to have demonstrated against the VIetnam war in cambridge. we would gather to march in a circle at the university entrance. after a few minutes the SDS (radical "students for a democratic society) would appear with a bullhorn to try to pre-empt our anti-war demonstration by shouting a bunch of socialist rhetoric at which time we would disperse. My point is that provocateurs or preemptors/disruptors will be infiltrating. protesters should be prepared for this.
Let me say a few words of context to my somewhat snarky comment about “who won”.
That was admittedly written also from a certain position of rage and I will add that you are indeed the winner in that conflict in a number of respects.
However - and I will not discuss your moral imperatives because if people decide for principled non-violence that is their prerogative and there are reasons for that and I respect that - let me say a word about the practical considerations. (Not about Putin’s Russia and may all your friends rest in power)
The question whether broken windows or burning Waymos are a gift for Trump’s agenda is sort of a moot point as authoritarians WILL escalate and they were already in the process of doing so - again and again and again. I am from Germany and the pseudo resistance that the Germans put up back in the day enabled the regime.
There is a reason to stay as nonviolent as possible but what escalated the tensions was that ICE came into those neighborhoods and kidnapped people. With more than one person now basically having been disappeared without due process the question at hand was basically whether or not these people let their friends potentially get murdered. Sure - for most it wouldnt end quite as bad but this put people in situations that were effectively ending or at least threatening their existences as they knew it.
To tell people that non-violence is “the right way” to demonstrate unjustly abstracts from this reality.
It is A way. And it is A way that also often forgets that - and I have been there more than once - the non-violence of soon is only made possible by the fact that others militantly protect it.
I am not telling you to not advocate for peacefulness. Everybody wants it as peaceful as possible. What I am asking is: stop the ambivalence towards the protesters that CANNOT watch how their friends are taken. Don’t act as if it’s a “present for Trump”. It’s not. Lack of resistance could also be interpreted as a win. They will spin everything to mean that they are winning. This is why it is up to us to unequivocally stand with the protestors.
I do wish that the Democratic Party was more organized and stronger in its fight against Trump. But I am heartened by the fact that the true measure of resistance is being exhibited by the people who are protesting.
It wod seem that American citizens have enjoyed a greater amount of freedom from oppression than Russian/ soviet citizens. From Stalin to putin it seems that russian citizens have become tolerant of the kind of leaders that a majority of US citizens just won't accept without a fight, and a majority of the courts, law enforcement, and military would no doubt be sympathetic to fighting to keep those freedoms in place.
I see the Viktor Orban playbook in play. Many of us will be treated with violence, incarcerated, etc. The rest of us will stay quiet to protect our own lives, families, retain some degree of normality. I do not rely on the American people responding to the coming shocking violence with an outraged sense of justice. No Allied Forces will come to our rescue.
From the right and the left. Amsterdam 1969 the Universitiy in Amsterdam was occupied. I was inside when students, practicing 'solidarity among the classes' invited Socialist Youth inside who started demolishing the 'intellectual' library - which invited police interference (not comparable with US brutality but unpleasant) which stopped negotioations. We lost.
I am old enough to have demonstrated against the VIetnam war in cambridge. we would gather to march in a circle at the university entrance. after a few minutes the SDS (radical "students for a democratic society) would appear with a bullhorn to try to pre-empt our anti-war demonstration by shouting a bunch of socialist rhetoric at which time we would disperse. My point is that provocateurs or preemptors/disruptors will be infiltrating. protesters should be prepared for this.
One way or another, no matter what, Russia is stronger than Putin and America is stronger than Trump. We’re gonna win.
Let me say a few words of context to my somewhat snarky comment about “who won”.
That was admittedly written also from a certain position of rage and I will add that you are indeed the winner in that conflict in a number of respects.
However - and I will not discuss your moral imperatives because if people decide for principled non-violence that is their prerogative and there are reasons for that and I respect that - let me say a word about the practical considerations. (Not about Putin’s Russia and may all your friends rest in power)
The question whether broken windows or burning Waymos are a gift for Trump’s agenda is sort of a moot point as authoritarians WILL escalate and they were already in the process of doing so - again and again and again. I am from Germany and the pseudo resistance that the Germans put up back in the day enabled the regime.
There is a reason to stay as nonviolent as possible but what escalated the tensions was that ICE came into those neighborhoods and kidnapped people. With more than one person now basically having been disappeared without due process the question at hand was basically whether or not these people let their friends potentially get murdered. Sure - for most it wouldnt end quite as bad but this put people in situations that were effectively ending or at least threatening their existences as they knew it.
To tell people that non-violence is “the right way” to demonstrate unjustly abstracts from this reality.
It is A way. And it is A way that also often forgets that - and I have been there more than once - the non-violence of soon is only made possible by the fact that others militantly protect it.
I am not telling you to not advocate for peacefulness. Everybody wants it as peaceful as possible. What I am asking is: stop the ambivalence towards the protesters that CANNOT watch how their friends are taken. Don’t act as if it’s a “present for Trump”. It’s not. Lack of resistance could also be interpreted as a win. They will spin everything to mean that they are winning. This is why it is up to us to unequivocally stand with the protestors.
This being said: many ways. One goal. Still.
Venceremos.
I do wish that the Democratic Party was more organized and stronger in its fight against Trump. But I am heartened by the fact that the true measure of resistance is being exhibited by the people who are protesting.
It wod seem that American citizens have enjoyed a greater amount of freedom from oppression than Russian/ soviet citizens. From Stalin to putin it seems that russian citizens have become tolerant of the kind of leaders that a majority of US citizens just won't accept without a fight, and a majority of the courts, law enforcement, and military would no doubt be sympathetic to fighting to keep those freedoms in place.
Thank you for your insights. I fear that our media would rather see us die. ‘When it bleeds it leads’ as they do say.
I see the Viktor Orban playbook in play. Many of us will be treated with violence, incarcerated, etc. The rest of us will stay quiet to protect our own lives, families, retain some degree of normality. I do not rely on the American people responding to the coming shocking violence with an outraged sense of justice. No Allied Forces will come to our rescue.
From the right and the left. Amsterdam 1969 the Universitiy in Amsterdam was occupied. I was inside when students, practicing 'solidarity among the classes' invited Socialist Youth inside who started demolishing the 'intellectual' library - which invited police interference (not comparable with US brutality but unpleasant) which stopped negotioations. We lost.