Why is it good news that the purported Palestinian government will be the PLO? This corrupt organisation has folded whenever the more extreme Palestinian factions have challenged it.
There is no polity from which a nation might arise.
The West Bank in particular is genuinely disputed land. Mandate era Jews were expelled in 1948 and restored by force in 1967. The international community speaks of the West Bank as if it’s the PA’s right of first refusal. It is not. Both Israelis and Palestinians have legitimate claims on the land and both must agree together on its future
"Colonialism comes in two flavors. In extractive colonialism, the objective is to extract wealth from the land and the people's labor, who you need to keep under control. In settler colonialism, the colonizer wants the land without the people, and that better describes Palestine. The colonizer wants the land for expansion by displacing locals. The tools are usually more brutal, because they don't need the people.
The word "decolonization". is often confused with anti-colonial. But not every anti-colonial movement is really de-colonial. Anti-colonial simply means being opposed to the presence of a colonizer. But Anti-colonial movements can follow some of the same behavioral patterns as colonizers, or have a worldview built on colonial concepts. Decolonization, isn't about removing anyone, it's about removing the supremacy of a group over another, so there's equal citizens…. It cant erase past inequities, but it's the light that can lead us forward to a different future.
There are two main models for ending settler colonialism, and understanding them is key to Palestine. There's the Algerian and South African models, and both have been applied to Palestine. The model followed by the Algerians was a military approach, that made the colony unlivable, until the occupiers left. In the South Africa model, colonialism was resolved by creating a democracy that included both the previously colonized and the colonizers.
Sharon's Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, referred to both models when in 2005 when Israel withdrew from Gaza. Olmert said. "More and more Palestinians are uninterested in a negotiated two-state solution because they want to change the essence of the conflict from an Algerian paradigm to a South African one... From a struggle against occupation to a struggle for one man, one vote. Since that's a cleaner and more popular struggle, and ultimately a more powerful one. But for Israel it would also mean the end of the Jewish state."
He's basically saying Palestinian statehood is a lethal threat to the ethno-national Jewishness of the state. The pre-October 7th reality wasn't something that Israel just stumbled into. It was a conscious choice, made and sustained by two generations of Israeli politicians. Olmert said the importance of them pulling out of Gaza, was that would let them freeze the peace process. So that the possibility of Palestinian statehood was put off indefinitely .
Because the Algerians got the French to leave, Palestinians thought they should do the same, and fight militarily till the israelis leave - some also felt jewish israel had no right to exist. But French-Algeria isn't like Israel for many reasons. For one, because the French had France to go back to. Also the French were always a minority, who never made up more than 20% of the population. But In the case of Israel/Palestine, the population is roughly half and half. And Israel was also largely founded by Holocaust survivors, escaping from a millennium of antisemitism and persecution, which makes this a very different psychological dynamic. And their historic ethnic religious roots were also here.
Many who are “pro-Palestinian” also think of it now as still being like Israel in 1948. Back then israel was mostly European jewish white settlers. But more than 60% of Israelis today are now descended from Middle Eastern Jews. So the idea that it’s still a white settler colony, is just not true.
Decolonization doesn't mean removing people but removing domination, that's why the South African model is so helpful, because it is rooted in values such as equality, coexistence, humanity, and integration. in this case that also fits the demographic reality, sInce the total population is pretty evenly split between palestinian and Jewish people, so the premise of equality is more applicable here.
Basically, these are two peoples locked in a cycle of trauma, who keep traumatizing each other more. We can't forget our humanity when we approach that problem.... The objective cant simply be to defeat Israel or to protect it or liberate Palestine. Instead we have to create a situation that both people can live in. We also have to think in generational terms. Palestinians and Israelis both say "how can we live with these people after what they have done?" But they are simply going to have to. Babies will be born tomorrow between the river and the sea, some Jewish, and some Palestinian. We have to ask what we want for them 20 or 30 years from now? Do we still want them to be doing what we're doing right now? If not then then the question must be how to change this?
The current israeli goverment's solution seems to be to completely subjegate the palestinian population and deny them the basic rights that they themselves were built on: the right to rule of law, equality before law political and economic freedoms
Many Palestinians think of "liberation" as a somehow reversing "The 1948 Nakba". But Edward Said, the prominent Palestinian American scholar, warned that obsession with the past will doom any possible progress. A de-colonial vision is a job for entrepreneurs and for architects, not for nihilists. We have to have the imagination to build a movement premised on equality, and humanity. People may think there is no future in which the Jewish and Palestinian populations live peacefuly together, but that is exactly why we have to double down on that idea! because Democracy and humanity is the only way out of the current problems.
Is the Algerian model even be possible ? it would mean endless rivers of blood and destruction. As a Palestinian, I want a country my children and grandchildren can live in with freedom and dignity, Not a country without Jews. And that means not just liberating Palestinians but also liberating Israelis from horrid conditions . It's about humanizing both the colonizer and the colonized. because Colonialism isn't just brutal to those colonized, but also to the soul of the colonizer. A decolonial movement can be led by the colonized, but it has to build for the future of both peoples.
There is one paradigm of partition, segregation and domination which is premised on an idea of ethnic nationalism. There's another paradigm of integration, equality and coexistence, which I think is the only realistic way forward.
The path in front of us now, post-October 7th, is one of unending crisis, in which anything Israelis get, they get by taking away from Palestinians, and anything Palestinians get, they would have to take from Israelis. That nihilist strategy is a reflection of the cycle of trauma we've become locked into. the Current politicians, and movements who are locked in this old way of thinking, are only going to give us is more of the same. More bloodshed, more conflict, violence, more war... and palestinians being starved, and bombed, with their backs to the wall, feel like the only thing they can do is to fight back.
We have two possible paths. but one one is actually blocked by a future of just endless destruction. The other path is about integration and is inter-generational and it's going to be very hard, and take a lot of work, but at least that way can get us someplace.While the ideal of democratic self governance still has massive appeal.
this current phase of israel and palestine's history is defined by ethno-nationalism, but thats just one temporary chapter. The history of the Jewish people is a very long well documented and very proud history. I want Jewish people to thrive in the Middle East, in their native region, for a very long time.
Maybe the way to insure that is to give up this idea of ethno-nationalism, and instead to accept each other without questioning who belongs and who doesn't anymore... Such a change will take generations, but the truth is we have a very long collective history in the middle east, with many phases, and much time ahead of us.
The problem of a democracy having a population imbalance can be adressed in many ways.
( Israeli jews now have an average birthrate of 2. 1 children, while palestinians now only average 2.6 children). if the population grows too lopsided there are institutional methods to insure equal and just reprisentation for all, and a fair share of economic participation… one obvious element of that solution creating a "confederation" structure, comprised of many regional authorities, similar to how The united states works. We forget the US founding fathers also had to create a fair system which could balance and be supported by people of very opposing beleifs and faiths... & Particularly the opposition those who opposed or beleived in slavery. What makes us think todays problems in israel/Palestine are any more difficult ? Its almost the same problem , and calls for a similar solution
Any solutions should also consider the role of "DEI" - diversity and inclusion. The 2024 Nobel prize for economics went to “studies of how institutions structure effect a nation's prosperity” That research clearly showed 'inclusive' democratic institutions are consistently more economically successful, and politically stable. this particularly applies to all studies of "post colonial" structures…. "Inclusive" economics, and political, institutions give incentives for talent and creativity, and invariably generated more lasting social stability, primarily due to how they help to generate greater and more widespread wealth, and shared prosperity".
Nope.
Not settler colonialism. Not a Nakba either.
https://substack.com/@reubensalsa/note/c-141201891?utm_source=notes-share-action&r=1tuvbn
Why is it good news that the purported Palestinian government will be the PLO? This corrupt organisation has folded whenever the more extreme Palestinian factions have challenged it.
There is no polity from which a nation might arise.
The West Bank in particular is genuinely disputed land. Mandate era Jews were expelled in 1948 and restored by force in 1967. The international community speaks of the West Bank as if it’s the PA’s right of first refusal. It is not. Both Israelis and Palestinians have legitimate claims on the land and both must agree together on its future
To understand Isreal/ Palestine consider what we know about post-colonialism.
Try starting here:
What Does “Decolonization” Mean in the Context of Gaza?
On The Media - WNYC - Podcast, Interview with Iyad el-Baghdadi , Palestinian human rights activist, writer , professor & Author.
LINK: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/what-it-means-decolonize-palestine-on-the-media
"Colonialism comes in two flavors. In extractive colonialism, the objective is to extract wealth from the land and the people's labor, who you need to keep under control. In settler colonialism, the colonizer wants the land without the people, and that better describes Palestine. The colonizer wants the land for expansion by displacing locals. The tools are usually more brutal, because they don't need the people.
The word "decolonization". is often confused with anti-colonial. But not every anti-colonial movement is really de-colonial. Anti-colonial simply means being opposed to the presence of a colonizer. But Anti-colonial movements can follow some of the same behavioral patterns as colonizers, or have a worldview built on colonial concepts. Decolonization, isn't about removing anyone, it's about removing the supremacy of a group over another, so there's equal citizens…. It cant erase past inequities, but it's the light that can lead us forward to a different future.
There are two main models for ending settler colonialism, and understanding them is key to Palestine. There's the Algerian and South African models, and both have been applied to Palestine. The model followed by the Algerians was a military approach, that made the colony unlivable, until the occupiers left. In the South Africa model, colonialism was resolved by creating a democracy that included both the previously colonized and the colonizers.
Sharon's Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, referred to both models when in 2005 when Israel withdrew from Gaza. Olmert said. "More and more Palestinians are uninterested in a negotiated two-state solution because they want to change the essence of the conflict from an Algerian paradigm to a South African one... From a struggle against occupation to a struggle for one man, one vote. Since that's a cleaner and more popular struggle, and ultimately a more powerful one. But for Israel it would also mean the end of the Jewish state."
He's basically saying Palestinian statehood is a lethal threat to the ethno-national Jewishness of the state. The pre-October 7th reality wasn't something that Israel just stumbled into. It was a conscious choice, made and sustained by two generations of Israeli politicians. Olmert said the importance of them pulling out of Gaza, was that would let them freeze the peace process. So that the possibility of Palestinian statehood was put off indefinitely .
Because the Algerians got the French to leave, Palestinians thought they should do the same, and fight militarily till the israelis leave - some also felt jewish israel had no right to exist. But French-Algeria isn't like Israel for many reasons. For one, because the French had France to go back to. Also the French were always a minority, who never made up more than 20% of the population. But In the case of Israel/Palestine, the population is roughly half and half. And Israel was also largely founded by Holocaust survivors, escaping from a millennium of antisemitism and persecution, which makes this a very different psychological dynamic. And their historic ethnic religious roots were also here.
Many who are “pro-Palestinian” also think of it now as still being like Israel in 1948. Back then israel was mostly European jewish white settlers. But more than 60% of Israelis today are now descended from Middle Eastern Jews. So the idea that it’s still a white settler colony, is just not true.
Decolonization doesn't mean removing people but removing domination, that's why the South African model is so helpful, because it is rooted in values such as equality, coexistence, humanity, and integration. in this case that also fits the demographic reality, sInce the total population is pretty evenly split between palestinian and Jewish people, so the premise of equality is more applicable here.
Basically, these are two peoples locked in a cycle of trauma, who keep traumatizing each other more. We can't forget our humanity when we approach that problem.... The objective cant simply be to defeat Israel or to protect it or liberate Palestine. Instead we have to create a situation that both people can live in. We also have to think in generational terms. Palestinians and Israelis both say "how can we live with these people after what they have done?" But they are simply going to have to. Babies will be born tomorrow between the river and the sea, some Jewish, and some Palestinian. We have to ask what we want for them 20 or 30 years from now? Do we still want them to be doing what we're doing right now? If not then then the question must be how to change this?
The current israeli goverment's solution seems to be to completely subjegate the palestinian population and deny them the basic rights that they themselves were built on: the right to rule of law, equality before law political and economic freedoms
Many Palestinians think of "liberation" as a somehow reversing "The 1948 Nakba". But Edward Said, the prominent Palestinian American scholar, warned that obsession with the past will doom any possible progress. A de-colonial vision is a job for entrepreneurs and for architects, not for nihilists. We have to have the imagination to build a movement premised on equality, and humanity. People may think there is no future in which the Jewish and Palestinian populations live peacefuly together, but that is exactly why we have to double down on that idea! because Democracy and humanity is the only way out of the current problems.
Is the Algerian model even be possible ? it would mean endless rivers of blood and destruction. As a Palestinian, I want a country my children and grandchildren can live in with freedom and dignity, Not a country without Jews. And that means not just liberating Palestinians but also liberating Israelis from horrid conditions . It's about humanizing both the colonizer and the colonized. because Colonialism isn't just brutal to those colonized, but also to the soul of the colonizer. A decolonial movement can be led by the colonized, but it has to build for the future of both peoples.
There is one paradigm of partition, segregation and domination which is premised on an idea of ethnic nationalism. There's another paradigm of integration, equality and coexistence, which I think is the only realistic way forward.
The path in front of us now, post-October 7th, is one of unending crisis, in which anything Israelis get, they get by taking away from Palestinians, and anything Palestinians get, they would have to take from Israelis. That nihilist strategy is a reflection of the cycle of trauma we've become locked into. the Current politicians, and movements who are locked in this old way of thinking, are only going to give us is more of the same. More bloodshed, more conflict, violence, more war... and palestinians being starved, and bombed, with their backs to the wall, feel like the only thing they can do is to fight back.
We have two possible paths. but one one is actually blocked by a future of just endless destruction. The other path is about integration and is inter-generational and it's going to be very hard, and take a lot of work, but at least that way can get us someplace.While the ideal of democratic self governance still has massive appeal.
this current phase of israel and palestine's history is defined by ethno-nationalism, but thats just one temporary chapter. The history of the Jewish people is a very long well documented and very proud history. I want Jewish people to thrive in the Middle East, in their native region, for a very long time.
Maybe the way to insure that is to give up this idea of ethno-nationalism, and instead to accept each other without questioning who belongs and who doesn't anymore... Such a change will take generations, but the truth is we have a very long collective history in the middle east, with many phases, and much time ahead of us.
The problem of a democracy having a population imbalance can be adressed in many ways.
( Israeli jews now have an average birthrate of 2. 1 children, while palestinians now only average 2.6 children). if the population grows too lopsided there are institutional methods to insure equal and just reprisentation for all, and a fair share of economic participation… one obvious element of that solution creating a "confederation" structure, comprised of many regional authorities, similar to how The united states works. We forget the US founding fathers also had to create a fair system which could balance and be supported by people of very opposing beleifs and faiths... & Particularly the opposition those who opposed or beleived in slavery. What makes us think todays problems in israel/Palestine are any more difficult ? Its almost the same problem , and calls for a similar solution
Any solutions should also consider the role of "DEI" - diversity and inclusion. The 2024 Nobel prize for economics went to “studies of how institutions structure effect a nation's prosperity” That research clearly showed 'inclusive' democratic institutions are consistently more economically successful, and politically stable. this particularly applies to all studies of "post colonial" structures…. "Inclusive" economics, and political, institutions give incentives for talent and creativity, and invariably generated more lasting social stability, primarily due to how they help to generate greater and more widespread wealth, and shared prosperity".
Nope there is no state and there will be no in the future.
Nothing wrong with freedom and good life!